Sage installs but when I click icon nothing happens!?

[Transcend]

Hi, Installed Sage on a few machines in our network. The machines are practically identicle with regards to build and model number.

It works fine on most of the PCs but on some, when I click on the icon, I get a flash of the Sage splash screen then nothing happnes. Same thing happens if I run the Sage.exe directly from C:\progfiles\sage\accounts. The user has admin priveleges. Have tried reinstalling.

Can anyone think of what could be causing this really annoying problem?

Thanks

[brucedenney]

What version of windows and what version of line 50 are you running?

[k.jacko]

hi there,

sorry to hijack on my 1st post.
But i have the same problem as Transcend.
We have Sage support contract, but, lol, if anyone believes they're actually there to help i'll eat my shoe.
Sage support blame our network permissions. Like Transcend this particular user i've created has full admin priveleges on the server that holds the sage installation and data files.
Even my IT Support team say all the permissions are correct, yet Sage suport washed their hands of it, so i'm left with a splash screen that does nothing more than bug the hell out of me.

Please help us both if you can.
I'm running Win 2003 Server and Sage V13 with update 4 and reports pack installed.

Many thanks

[brucedenney]

Try this:-

uninstall line 50,
delete the program files\sage\accounts directory
reinstall.
apply all patches

see if it works.

[k.jacko]

Thanks Bruce, that was my next 'thing to do'.

Would it be adviseable to copy the COMPANY file and obviously company folders to another part of the disk.

FYI....and anybody else with similar probs, we operate from terminal services. But even using a local install and trying to open Sage on the server gives the same problems.....and again the user has full admin rights on the server??? So its not just a 'terminal server' issue, which Sage suggested.
Thing is, this same user can open Sage Payroll and Forecasting, just not Line 50, which to me points towards the program. Sage reckon that because its the only user who can't access Line50, that its a user/network issue.
ROCK >>>>>>>>>>> ME <<<<<<<<<<<< HARD PLACE

Will try reinstall and report back. Many thanks. Hope yours get sorted to Transcend.

[k.jacko]

Reinstalled it all, now the problematic user is the ONLY user that can get into Line50 now. So a complete reversal of the problem has now occurred.

Sage products should have a government health warning on em. Cos they are seriously bad for MY health.

[brucedenney]

Sounds like the issue where only the user that installed the product can use it (was common with V10) intalling the service packs fixed that, I assume you have put all the V13 service pack on.

Although normally after a VERY long time you do get an error message. Perhaps it is slightly different because you are on terminal server?

The problem relates to a crypto key that the program creates in
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys
the key is given Creator Only rights which results in some of the symptoms that you are seeing.

The following could fix your installation.

Check you can view all files and hidden files

Check simple file sharing is off in the view options of windows explorer

Go to "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users" and give all users full
access and refresh the security options and untick inheritable
permissions and tick reset permissions on all child objects. Then under
the ownership tab make sure the owner is set to include the
administrators group and if the local user is not in the administrators
group add the local user to the owner list and tick the replace owner on
subcontainers and objects box.

[k.jacko]

Hi Bruce,
i was in the middle of posting a rant about Sage when my pc rebooted, so i'll now with hold whilst i divulge your advice.

Sounds like the issue where only the user that installed the product can use it (was common with V10) intalling the service packs fixed that, I assume you have put all the V13 service pack on.

Yep v13.02.30.0144

Although normally after a VERY long time you do get an error message. Perhaps it is slightly different because you are on terminal server?

left it well over 30 mins and no message.

The problem relates to a crypto key that the program creates in
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys
the key is given Creator Only rights which results in some of the symptoms that you are seeing.

The following could fix your installation.

Check you can view all files and hidden files

Check simple file sharing is off in the view options of windows explorer

Go to "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users" and give all users full
access and refresh the security options and untick inheritable
permissions and tick reset permissions on all child objects. Then under
the ownership tab make sure the owner is set to include the
administrators group and if the local user is not in the administrators
group add the local user to the owner list and tick the replace owner on
subcontainers and objects box.

Went through all that with Sage on the phone earlier.
A couple of other things. About 1 hour after reinstall one of the user could suddenly log in, but as of now (16:45) the other 3 still cannot.
I can login as admin on TS and access sage, AND from my local client install where i am admin which points to the same data path.
BUT, the one user that can login now through TS, cannot login from her local client install and she is also admin.
How wierd is all this?

Payroll now does not work for anyone and i've moved all the data that i was told too after line50 reinstall.

Go figure!.......please.

[brucedenney]

This is very confusing, not least because there are 2 different logins / security systems, that of Sage and that of Windows.

The user Can you try different sage logins under different windows logins.

Ie a sage login that works under a windows login that doesn't work and a sage login that doesn't work under a windows login that does.

hopefully this should give clues as to which security is causing the issue.

[brucedenney]

Just thought of something else.

Have all the users got working valid default printers?
did you have payroll V13 pdf installed ?

[k.jacko]

Just thought of something else.

Have all the users got working valid default printers?
did you have payroll V13 pdf installed ?

Lol....another 65 min phone call to sage,and they now 'may' do a goto assist remote dialin for me, how nice.

Yep installed the pdf thingy. As far as valid default printers go, they randomly change. I approached Microsoft about this months ago, applied a hotfix, but it didn't seem to work.
Bruce, what do the printers have to do with opening sage?

Ok, it is confusing i know, but i'll try and clear it up a bit.
Scenario:
Users A, B, C and D all access line50 via TS with no problems.
Along comes user E (whom i created a TS account from scratch) was given the same permission as A-D, but could not get past the line50 splash screen (which points towards access permissions)
I deleted user E and tried recreated it by cloning one of the other users, so that i knew it would belong to the same usergroups and have the same permissions.
Still it couldnt get past the splash screen.
Today i uninstalled and reinstalled line50 up to v13.02.30.0144. and tried accessing line50 with user E, it got past the splash screen to the login screen and logged in fine.
BUT, for some reason users A-D could no longer access line50, getting stuck at the splash screen. At this point i had NOT altered any of their permissions at all.
Went through all the usual tests with the permission with sage on the phone. eg. user A reading/writing files to all the relevent folders, all fine, but user A still could not get past the line50 splash screen.
Its not a sage login issue, cos it doesn't even get to the login screen, it seems like a network share access issue. But all the permissions are in place.
I was adamant that they elevate the call for a 'goto assist' remote dialin on monday morning hopefully.
Our IT support team say that they ripped sage out because of all the problems and have loads of customers doing the same. He nearly fell of his chair when i said we were using v13. "no wonder" he said "its god awful! go back to v12" was his advice. He also reckoned that our company is too big for using sage (5 users and 10 companies).

I still appreciate all you replies mate, many thanks.

[brucedenney]

Everyone is trying to upsell.

Everyone blames everyone else.

I just try to fix things.

The printers is a big issue, sage seems to look for a valid printer driver even when it is not doing anything to do with printing!.

The pdf printer from Payroll causes some problems with Line 50. I suggest un-installing Payroll as part of the elimination game.

In terms of access rights, Sage does need full permissions on c:\Windows, c:\Program Files\Common Files\Sage as well as the install directory.


I am almost surprised Support have not pointed out that TS is not a supported environment and washed their hands of you. I guess they really do want to help.

Try deleting the contents of the TaskOpt directory

[k.jacko]

I installed v13 of payroll last week, and all fine was until the line50 reinstall today. I was advised by Sage to reinstall payroll again, if its now not working for anyone.

Do you think line50 looks for a printer driver even at splash screen stage?

I know sage don't support TS and they have said as much, but we couldn't get it working when a local pc had the client install and just tried connecting to the same data share on the server.
On this occasion i could browse the sage folder on the network but couldn't read/write files even though the user was a local admin and permissions were set to allow it so.

It all so screwey. My IT support team categorically say that it can't be an Active Directory corrupt account because they don't corrupt like that. They would more likely cause serious errors across the whole network, than just disallow users into line50.

The plot certainly thickens.

I have to go into work tomorrow just to reinstall payroll.

Ahhh..... i just remembered. When i had to reinstall line50 v12 last year, i remember sage saying i'd have to reinstall payroll too.

[sagewizard]

Hi Guys

I don't think this has anything to do with the SagePDF Generator. In my experience it tends to be either access rights (which is what it sounds like), damaged data or damaged program files. As you were able to get into the program for most people that would rule out damaged data.

Sage Accounts & Payroll do share a common access folder called SBD Desktop within Program Files >> Common Files, so reinstalling either program would mean having to reinstall the other as well.

I can sugguest 3 things at this stage (obviously make sure you have a copy of your data before doing any of these):

First you mentioned that you when through with support to check the access rights to the MachineKeys folder, did you give everybody full access to this folder or did you rename it & recreate it?. If you just checked the access rights then try ensuring that all the folders above MachineKeys have full access for everyone i.e. C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA with the MachineKeys folder rename it to MachineKeysold then create a new MachineKeys folder & check that it inherits the access rights so everyone that you have set up has full access( if you set the access rights on the individual folders in the tree then it should not effect your security settings), this will force V13 to rewrite the access key to this folder as if it was a brand new install. Also check that your Sage users have full access to C:\Program Files\Common Files & of course the Sage folder itself.

Secondly, V13 is the first Sage program to be designed around .NET, try uninstalling .NET V2 from with add remove programs, then reinstall V13 from the installation CD this will force Sage to install .NET on to your system.

Finally, if that fails Sage is not good at tidying up after itself, even though you have uninstalled & reinstalled the program & deleted the Sage folder the program levels a total of 26 .dlls behind scattered throughout your system as well as a number of other files & folders. So it maybe that when you uninstall the damaged file was not removed & thus not replaced when you reinstalled, if none of the above solutions have worked then when you get your gotoassit as support if they can remove these then reinstall, again this will clear Sage completely form your system & treat V13 as a fresh install rather than an upgrade.

As a closing note Line 50 has been tested on TS since V12 so really support should be helping you with this.

Hope this helps

[brucedenney]

On this occasion i could browse the sage folder on the network but couldn't read/write files even though the user was a local admin and permissions were set to allow it so.

That seems VERY significant. And at odds with the statement that you had full access rights.

I would suspect that this is nothing to do with sage and an issue with your permissions.

My IT support team categorically say that it can't be an Active Directory corrupt account because they don't corrupt like that.

I would question your IT Support team on why you can't access the file directory that you have full permission to access. Perhaps they haven't seen it all yet. I see new things all the time.